[Sobeyet]

Rohanna, on 15 March 2010 - 08:18 PM, said:

Well speaking of situational awareness being the biggest DPS lose for most people (death most often). And even mashing buttons.
I have say from experience with this guild (being here so long and watching everyone) the women have the hardest time improving this ... it usually takes them months longer than the males in the guild to pick this stuff up.

Placing them on different zones of learning this is something I have a habit of doing (probably not a good thing) but I expect the males to heal more than the females when recruited and give the women a longer period of time to improve before taking the time to work everything out and talk to them. Usually though the last few women have taken it upon themselves to fix things, by asking the guys which has proved me wrong and YAY!

Maybe she will be the same.

I don't know if I'd agree with that, seems a bit sexist to me (sounds weird coming from me right?!). There's no reason a girl can't play as well as a guy, all other things being equal. If a girl isn't motivated to top meters or is easily distracted, that's a part of her personality, not a part of her girl-ness. A girl isn't a bad player because she's a girl, it's because she's a bad player. Guinthel being better than Dok and Adelyn being better than Nobo has nothing to do with gender.

The "lol-I'm-just-a-girl-I'm-not-as-good-as-a-guy-tee-hee" thing can be cute under the right circumstances, but I don't find this to be one of them. Stand up for the sistahs!

And for the record the best healer I've ever played with is Lattice in Exodus, and she's a girl. (But Asian, so kinda cheating there)

Hecatus, on 15 March 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

Just a thought, but why did we turn down that dk?

He seemed fairly ballin' and even had Sobe's approval for a test run. Charl was dc'ing a lot at the time and getting swapped out and we didn't have Chris raiding at the time... Fairly legit reasons to take an above average dps...

Personally I'd like another lock simply cause Rix isn't 100% w/ us yet and SS/faster imp shadow bolt being up is a plus for me... but besides standard dps... are we really getting anything? o.o

We're really hurting for a boomkin... when bear goes off for the night or something... it hurts bad. Chance on proc 5% vs constant/static 5% crit and sometimes no earth/moon depending on the night (13% caster dmg)

Another source of windfury from a frost DK would've been nice too, since Rocir is new and we're not sure if he'll make every raid yet. And saying it was because of plate gear is a bit silly because we have more clothies and Liiliaa was just invited. But no use crying over spilled milk.

In all the times Rixx has raided with the guild he's had good attendance so I wouldn't worry about him. But a destro lock isn't going to give you 5% crit since they don't use SB (well they could, but that's like asking an arcane mage to scorch, they'll just lol@u). With commanding shout from warriors, a destro lock is pretty much useless in terms of utility.

[Guinthel]

Sobeyet, on 15 March 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

The "lol-I'm-just-a-girl-I'm-not-as-good-as-a-guy-tee-hee"

Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-ZOMBIE BUBBLED

[Len]

Hecatus, on 15 March 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

Just a thought, but why did we turn down that dk?

As a general rule of thumb, we don't add people to the raid just to sit them because the raid is full. We are relatively plate-heavy at the moment, so there didn't seem to be another point in adding another plate wearer.

We'd do the same with another healing Priest.

We have a target for the number of raiders, and while it fluctuates a bit, we do try to stick to it. Our philosophy is fewer, more dedicated raiders rather than a large bench to choose from.

[Sobeyet]

Len, on 16 March 2010 - 12:31 AM, said:

As a general rule of thumb, we don't add people to the raid just to sit them because the raid is full. We are relatively plate-heavy at the moment, so there didn't seem to be another point in adding another plate wearer.

That doesn't really jive with what just happened though. We have 7 plate DPS and 8 cloth DPS, and we just added Liiliaa to make it 9. If we rejected the DK due to excess competition in gear, we should have rejected the lock. And as mentioned before certain cloth items are BiS for healers and classes that can wear cloth (boomkin/ele shaman) so you may be looking at +12 people competing for a cloth piece. If a rogue wanted a plate item for some reason he wouldn't be able to take it anyway, but with cloth it's a different story. And the whole token situation is iffy too. At least the DK would have a chance at picking up tier tokens, it'll probably be +2 months before Liiliaa gets one. Both were equally geared in mostly 264 pieces.

Did we invite her because she knows Aif? Probably, and that's good enough of a reason. But to say that she got an invite due to gear (DK would have been less competition) or synergy (Frost DK bring FAR more utility than destro lock) or skill (iirc he beat hecatus and was behind Passa, so he's probably +1k DPS higher than Liiliaa, and she still never provided a log) is false.

Also possible that there was a perception that we had too much plate DPS but not enough cloth DPS, but that's not even close to being true. (Damn it feels good to be a gangsta mail wearer)

[Hecatus]

Score nvm then. Thought someone else said he was 50% atm -my bad

[Rohanna]

11 Cloth
8 Leather
6 Mail
11 Plate

actually.

Including the 3 plate tanks 1 plate healer and like 5 healing priest.

[Sobeyet]

Rohanna, on 16 March 2010 - 01:19 AM, said:

11 Cloth
8 Leather
6 Mail
11 Plate

actually.

You fail at counting. I hope you're not lumping in our holy pally and tanks in with plate DPS gear, because that's not competition. Same reason I don't compete with you for mail gear. That would be like rejecting the new resto shaman app because he might take my ArP mail. Cloth gear with haste on the other hand is wanted by both casters and healers that wear cloth. I know for a fact elemental wears cloth as part of the BiS set, not sure about druids.

If you want to be specific, DKs want ArP plate, while the 4 rets we have do not. The distinction does matter - there's not much overlap between hunter BiS and enhancement shaman BiS because of ArP vs Haste on Mail gear.

The competition for DK gear atm is 4 people, Charlagain, Sidious, Savros, and Virile. I'm even giving you Virile even though he has terrible attendance.

The competition for Lock gear atm is 8 DPSers, Nuadaa, Rixxart, Rystorm, Vicen, Deceax, Warzero, Civic, Hecatus. And that's not counting 5 healing priests Guinthel/Dok/Len/Adelyn/Nobo and 2 ele shaman Orodruin/Mystolon. 15 total if you want to count the ele shaman, 13 otherwise. The giant pita that was gearing a lock in our raid comp was one of the reasons I switched.

So yes, there's a lot more competition for lock gear than DK gear. You're the officers, you can accept an app because you like his name if you want. But if you want to use gear distribution as a reason, try to consider what people actually wear.

[Wrathblood]

Hmm, something that's getting left out in this discussion is our ideal raid composition in terms of roles. Are we really pushing for a 50/50 melee/ranged split? Maybe my mind is still stuck in SSC, but I tend to think of "appropriate" dps distribution as being maybe 60/40 ranged/melee, or perhaps that ranged dps = melee dps + tanks. I guess I should just parse through a few WoL dumps and count but I'm feeling lazy, and more importantly, I'm curious what our organizational philosophy on the subject is.

I mean, I knew the frost dk and liked him a lot, so I was disappointed when he didn't get in, but I understood because I figured we were getting pretty far off 60/40. If there isn't room, then there isn't room. On the other hand, if we're actually pushing for 50/50 then Sobe's got a point.

IMO, recruiting and raid composition is one of the most fun parts of being RL/GL... until you have to decide who is going to sit, at which point it becomes one of the worst. Bad applicants are easy. Good applicants, especially if they're someone's friend, can be hard. Sure, the player might be well geared and a great player, and adding them to the mix would probably make the raid better. But then you have to decide who is going to be sitting more or possibly even get bumped out of the raid. The has implications beyond raid progression, because it touches on what kind of guild you want to have, the attitude, the atmosphere, etc. I personally feel like my raid slot is on the line every time I raid, not because Shardik sat me down and said "If you screw up this pull, you're history" but because I'm painfully aware of every mistake I make and try to improve for the next time. However, its a very different thing between thinking that and having the guild leadership come out and actually say it, which is in effect what happens when we recruit too many people.

That having been said, as a guild we probably should be working a little harder on making sure people improve, giving feedback, etc. The mages seem to do it pretty well, but we should probably be a little firmer about it. And, on a gender-note, love her or hate her, Phayth would probably have something to say about whether girls can dps effectively or not.

[Len]

Sobeyet, on 16 March 2010 - 01:26 AM, said:

So yes, there's a lot more competition for lock gear than DK gear. You're the officers, you can accept an app because you like his name if you want. But if you want to use gear distribution as a reason, try to consider what people actually wear.

We'll slot someone if we need them regardless of how many people compete for their gear type. The biggest factor was that we don't need another melee DPS, but we need more ranged DPS.

"Too many plate" was in hindsight an incorrect way of phrasing that.

The annoying thing about raid balancing is that you are never done. The situation pretty much changes week to week, and a work schedule shift or a fried video card will pretty much screw up any planning that we may do. Over the past few weeks, the feeling amongst the officers has been that we are good on melee DPS, could use 1-2 more ranged DPS, and need at least another solid healer. Next week it may be different.

[Puddingcup]

Hecatus, on 15 March 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

We're really hurting for a boomkin... when bear goes off for the night or something... it hurts bad. Chance on proc 5% vs constant/static 5% crit and sometimes no earth/moon depending on the night (13% caster dmg)

How often do you not have earth&moon / ebon plague / CoE

[Sobeyet]

Wrathblood, on 16 March 2010 - 08:29 AM, said:

And, on a gender-note, love her or hate her, Phayth would probably have something to say about whether girls can dps effectively or not.

Doesn't count, Asian. And Rohanna hates her. But yes, she'd probably outDPS everyone in this guild except me. Way to get beat by a girl, losers.

[Hecatus]

Oshibo, on 16 March 2010 - 09:19 AM, said:

Hecatus, on 15 March 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

We're really hurting for a boomkin... when bear goes off for the night or something... it hurts bad. Chance on proc 5% vs constant/static 5% crit and sometimes no earth/moon depending on the night (13% caster dmg)

How often do you not have earth&moon / ebon plague / CoE

Enough to make me remember it? Probably a consistent problem 2-3 times in the last 2 weeks. Regardless still far too often.

[Wrathblood]

Last time we did Putricide, Charles had ~85% uptime on Ebon Plaguebringer, even with his crappy latency, which is pretty good considering the Tear Gas phases are a good 6-7% of the duration of the fight. Sure, having Bear along would be better, but the fall-off isn't as horrible as one might guess.

[Guinthel]

its ok guys my hunter can do about half sobie and passa's dps now.